Dear U Kyaw Myaing,

You may have heard this saying, 'Min-bin kaung-lei min-myaung phyet'(ths king or leader in our case may be good but could be spoilt by his followers).

You may recalled that when we were in the service it was very rare for any of our so called advisers (except for U Ba Chit)to raise alternative view (let alone opposing one) when it comes to briefing ministers. You know the rest is history.

In Burma we don't have many King Canuet who would like to expose the lies and flattery of his court. Could you imagine anyone in Burma telling Than Shwe and his generals how stupid they are.

I had my days of rebelling, now it's time for me to live in peace with myself.

By the way, I hope U Lin Myaing is giving good advice to Martin Pun. It was smart of Martin to buy him.

Dear Jacques,

The "Path of Purification" is not only for the Buddhist monk, or a layman (a citizen) but most of all for any individual who aspires to become a national leader.

It is indeed difficult to become one who is on the Ariyan path (also called Stream Winners). (a person who attains the four Ariya Maggas).

It is even more difficult to aspire to become a Paceka Buddha.

It is of course most difficult to aspire to become an Samma Sambuddha. (Fully Enlightened Buddha).

This being so, the individual (whoever he or she it may be) who aspires to become a national leader has to always ask these fundamental questions:

1. Am I a "Savant" leader? (this is some one who gives his life to serve and not boss around).
2. If so, do I always think of what is best for my country and myself?
3. Is my vision of the ultimate goal in tune with the actual reality? (with what the people are saying)(Do I listen to their voices).
4. Am I willing to listen to advisors who come from both sides (government officers as well as people from other political parties and veteran politicians?)
5. Am I interested in only living this life or what happens to me in the Cycle of Life (Samsara).
6. What legacy do I wish to leave behind after I pass away?
7. Will the people still love me when I pass away?
8. Am I really interested in Spiritual Development?

These are questions that should be asked as Burma/Myanmar is a Buddhist country and for all Buddhists these are very important points.

If a national leader cannot be a Role Model for his/her own people, what will happen to the country.

The answer to this simple question is also very simple.

In a family, if the head of the family is not a good role model, the whole family will not prosper. It will meet extreme hardships and eventually will not have the ability to survive as a family.

That is why "the path of purification" is very, very important.

Note: In my postings I have always tried to be objective rather than subjective.

KM

Dear Jacques,

The "Path of Purification" is not only for the Buddhist monk, or a layman (a citizen) but most of all for any individual who aspires to become a national leader.

It is indeed difficult to become one who is on the Ariyan path (also called Stream Winners). (a person who attains the four Ariya Maggas).

It is even more difficult to aspire to become a Paceka Buddha.

It is of course most difficult to aspire to become an Samma Sambuddha. (Fully Enlightened Buddha).

This being so, the individual (whoever he or she it may be) who aspires to become a national leader has to always ask these fundamental questions:

1. Am I a "Savant" leader? (this is some one who gives his life to serve and not boss around).
2. If so, do I always think of what is best for my country and myself?
3. Is my vision of the ultimate goal in tune with the actual reality? (with what the people are saying)(Do I listen to their voices).
4. Am I willing to listen to advisors who come from both sides (government officers as well as people from other political parties and veteran politicians?)
5. Am I interested in only living this life or what happens to me in the Cycle of Life (Samsara).
6. What legacy do I wish to leave behind after I pass away?
7. Will the people still love me when I pass away?
8. Am I really interested in Spiritual Development?

These are questions that should be asked as Burma/Myanmar is a Buddhist country and for all Buddhists these are very important points.

If a national leader cannot be a Role Model for his/her own people, what will happen to the country.

The answer to this simple question is also very simple.

In a family, if the head of the family is not a good role model, the whole family will not prosper. It will meet extreme hardships and eventually will not have the ability to survive as a family.

That is why "the path of purification" is very, very important.

Note: In my postings I have always tried to be objective rather than subjective.

KM

Jacques wrote:

QUOTE:
With a such sentance, I just can reply with upgrating you karma B)

So Jacques, have you upgraded my Karma.

From what level to what level?

Or if this just a slight joke.

KM

The path to leadership starts at home and at the community level.

The person who wishes to become a leader should at first try to have the respect of those who are in his family.

A father or mother who does not have the respect of his/her children cannot hope to be a leader at the community level let alone a leader of the family.

That is why "walking the talk" is very important.

For example, a father who is a drunkard cannot teach his children not to drink.

That is why leadership by example is very effective.

A teacher who always comes late to class cannot give a lecture about being on time.

So also, a monk who does not have sila cannot give a lecture about sila. The monk has to first keep sila before he can preach sila.

The yellow robes does not make a man a Buddhist monk but his willingness to keep the sila of the monk and his acceptance by his peers makes him a Buddhist monk.

So there is a big difference between Conventional truth and Ultimate Truth.

Conventional truth = samuti sacca

Ultimate truth = paramata sacca

Just some simple thoughts.

KM

Dear U Kyaw Myaing,

How are we to judge whether a person donned with a 'thingan' or yellow robe is not keeping his 'vinaya'? If you were a soldier and you're ordered to shoot the monks (or persons donned in yellow robes to your liking) will you shoot?

You talk about 'path to purification' and so on but if we were to choose that path, ideally we should removed ourselves from all social occasions and become a recluse.

Since we, neither are those monks, who haven't reached that stage in life it will only be natural to protest against any form of injustices. In Burma it will be hard to avoid. Like me, you too took a stand and we paid the price. Are we to make those sacrifice for nothing.

Buddha said "Restrained with the Patimokkha restraint" (here Patimokkha or the Rule of the Community, is the virtue of the training precepts; for it 'frees' (mokkha) him who 'protects' (pati) it, guards it, it sets him free (mocayati) from the pains of the states of loss, etc.; that is why it is called 'Patimokkha'.

There is nothing left for the SPDC to transgress upon. If you're suggesting that such leaders who would not have any restraint even when it comes to killing the Sangha, then I think we should stop discussing about this topic.

If you believe in the law of karma then you won't have to wait long for the generals to reap what they have sown. Didn't we say, "vibaggar suttaraw khanda arupinaw ainnya-minya vibagga pyisayena pyitsayaw". Wouldn't that be one of the truths you've mentioned - paramahtta sacca?

Dear U Warazein,

If someone is a soldier, because of military discipline, they will have to obey orders.

So from the Buddha Dhamma's point of view, the "doer" is the "newbie" and the "victim" is the "oldie".

In Burmese it means:

"Pyu thu athit
Khan thu ahaung".

It means that the person who does the deed will sow the result of his or her bad karma in this life or the next.

It person who is the victim is just suffering the effects of his/her past bad karma. (Karma wutta in the Abhidhamma terminology).

KM


warazein wrote:

QUOTE:
Dear U Kyaw Myaing,

How are we to judge whether a person donned with a 'thingan' or yellow robe is not keeping his 'vinaya'? If you were a soldier and you're ordered to shoot the monks (or persons donned in yellow robes to your liking) will you shoot?

You talk about 'path to purification' and so on but if we were to choose that path, ideally we should removed ourselves from all social occasions and become a recluse.

Since we, neither are those monks, who haven't reached that stage in life it will only be natural to protest against any form of injustices. In Burma it will be hard to avoid. Like me, you too took a stand and we paid the price. Are we to make those sacrifice for nothing.

Buddha said "Restrained with the Patimokkha restraint" (here Patimokkha or the Rule of the Community, is the virtue of the training precepts; for it 'frees' (mokkha) him who 'protects' (pati) it, guards it, it sets him free (mocayati) from the pains of the states of loss, etc.; that is why it is called 'Patimokkha'.

There is nothing left for the SPDC to transgress upon. If you're suggesting that such leaders who would not have any restraint even when it comes to killing the Sangha, then I think we should stop discussing about this topic.

If you believe in the law of karma then you won't have to wait long for the generals to reap what they have sown. Didn't we say, "vibaggar suttaraw khanda arupinaw ainnya-minya vibagga pyisayena pyitsayaw". Wouldn't that be one of the truths you've mentioned - paramahtta sacca?

Dear U Kyaw Myaing,

In my opinion, your answer is a 'cop out'. I hope you don't believe in yourself that a person can commit crime with the excuse that he or she is 'obeying the orders'.

You have to know that such an excuse will not acquit you of your criminal responsibility. If you study the case against the Serb generals of war crimes 'obeying orders' is not an excuse. As a matter of fact I cannot blame you for that answer. Stanley Milgram has shown in his book, "Obedience to Authority" people would at length to do horrible things to another human being if they believed that they are doing what they have been ordered to do.

Don't forget that there are some soldiers who would defy their orders when they were ordered to shoot at the monks. Didn't you remember reading a report that Vasile Milea, Minister for Defence of Romania committed suicide rather than obey Ceausescu's order to open fire on demonstrators?
However, Nicolae and his feared and powerful wife Elena were executed by firing squad after they had ben captured near Tirgoviste.

As a Buddhist, one should accept whatever good or bad happened to you as 'old karma' and not sowing the 'new karma' by seeking revenge seems 'fair' but 'unpalatable'. Like Geoffrey Robinson said "we should never let these criminals, like Pol Pot, Mugabe, Charles Taylor, Than Shwe and so on, die in their sleep. They should be made to pay for their crimes.

You sound like this African American in New York. He was told that God created him as a black man so that he could withstand the heat of African sun. If he were to believe that God has created him then he has to question himself, "What am I doing in New York?"

If you were to call yourself a Buddhist then one has to believe in 'the law of Karma'. To take karma lightly as 'one has to suffer because of one's past karma' seems to me like a 'political belief' rather that a 'conviction'. My guide to this is from Patthana - kusala kusalan karman vibaganan khandanan kattasa rupanan karma-pyitsayeina pyitsayaw; cetana thanpa-yoke kanan dhammanan tan-tha-motehtanan rupanan karma-pyitsayeina pyitsayaw.

Didn't Buddha said that it was 'cetana' (either good or bad )is the one that determined the kind of 'karma'? What kind of 'cetana' would you think the soldier would have when he shot the monks on obeying orders? Karma rooted in 'hatred' or 'neutral' (abyakata)? Though the act of shooting to kill the monk is rooted in 'unwholesome consciousness' (akusalacitta) because one believed that one was just obeying orders, can one assume that there will be no 'resultant' or vipaka?

I do like to hear from you regarding this matter. I've been reading 'religion and politics' and I have many questions to ask our resident monk here. I'll keep in touch with you soon.

Dear U Kyaw Myaing,

In my opinion, your answer is a 'cop out'. I hope you don't believe in yourself that a person can commit crime with the excuse that he or she is 'obeying the orders'.

You have to know that such an excuse will not acquit you of your criminal responsibility. If you study the case against the Serb generals of war crimes 'obeying orders' is not an excuse. As a matter of fact I cannot blame you for that answer. Stanley Milgram has shown in his book, "Obedience to Authority" people would at length to do horrible things to another human being if they believed that they are doing what they have been ordered to do.

Don't forget that there are some soldiers who would defy their orders when they were ordered to shoot at the monks. Didn't you remember reading a report that Vasile Milea, Minister for Defence of Romania committed suicide rather than obey Ceausescu's order to open fire on demonstrators?
However, Nicolae and his feared and powerful wife Elena were executed by firing squad after they had ben captured near Tirgoviste.

As a Buddhist, one should accept whatever good or bad happened to you as 'old karma' and not sowing the 'new karma' by seeking revenge seems 'fair' but 'unpalatable'. Like Geoffrey Robinson said "we should never let these criminals, like Pol Pot, Mugabe, Charles Taylor, Than Shwe and so on, die in their sleep. They should be made to pay for their crimes.

You sound like this African American in New York. He was told that God created him as a black man so that he could withstand the heat of African sun. If he were to believe that God has created him then he has to question himself, "What am I doing in New York?"

If you were to call yourself a Buddhist then one has to believe in 'the law of Karma'. To take karma lightly as 'one has to suffer because of one's past karma' seems to me like a 'political belief' rather that a 'conviction'. My guide to this is from Patthana - kusala kusalan karman vibaganan khandanan kattasa rupanan karma-pyitsayeina pyitsayaw; cetana thanpa-yoke kanan dhammanan tan-tha-motehtanan rupanan karma-pyitsayeina pyitsayaw.

Didn't Buddha said that it was 'cetana' (either good or bad )is the one that determined the kind of 'karma'? What kind of 'cetana' would you think the soldier would have when he shot the monks on obeying orders? Karma rooted in 'hatred' or 'neutral' (abyakata)? Though the act of shooting to kill the monk is rooted in 'unwholesome consciousness' (akusalacitta) because one believed that one was just obeying orders, can one assume that there will be no 'resultant' or vipaka?

I do like to hear from you regarding this matter. I've been reading 'religion and politics' and I have many questions to ask our resident monk here. I'll keep in touch with you soon.

Dear U Warazein,

I am delighted to receive your email response for two reasons.

One, I am very honored to have such a friend like you who has good knowledge of politics as well as religion. I must say that my knowledge of Pathana is not that good. I am still in the learning stage trying to listen to the CDs by learned Sayadaws again and again. There is no such thing as "enough" when it comes to aquiring knowledge and understanding.

Two, the fact that this discussion is going on with deep thoughtful postings with civility and respect for each other. The issues discussed are very important and I am sure others in this forum will benefit even if they do not wish to join in as yet.

On the moral issue of obeying orders.

I will reply with my own personal story. During the era of the BSPP government, the economy went from bad to worse and a lot of people - citizens, government servants, merchants etc. had to sell things in the blackmarket (especially petrol rations) and engage in bribery and corruption. The moral question then was: Do you join in and do what others are doing although you know it is wrong. Do you drink the bitter rain or not.(Amyar moe khar yae thauk ko lei thauk).

In my case, I decided to leave the service because it was the right thing to do at that time in my analysis of the situation. At that time many civil servants demonstrated on the streets for good governance, democracy and freedom. They did it out of their own convictions and many paid the price for these actions. You know I left the service and tried to get employment elsewhere rather than remain in the system and suffer in misery every day of my life.

What I am saying here is that every individual has his price. Some are fearful of authority. Some are afraid to lose their jobs. Some are willing to stay on within the present system rather than venture into the unkown.

I am not making a moral judgement on how others make their life-changing decisions.

However, you and I know that there are laws of men, international law and the laws of the universe (Dharma). Christians would call it "the laws of God".

This brings to mind a title of a book by a famous Russian author, "God sees the truth but waits".

You will have noticed that sometimes I may side-step issues or choose my words very carefully. All these are based on the fact that this is a public forum. I hope you will understand.

From the Abhidhamma we know that certain acts of karma (either good or bad) bear fruits in their own way.

It is very difficult for us as ornidary mortals how the effects of Karma will play out. It is beyond the scope of our understanding. Only the Samma Sam Buddha can comprehend the laws of karma in detail. Having said that, there are answers in the Abhidhamma which can guide us.

1. Some karmic acitons bear fruit immediately. (within a few days).

2. Some karmic actions happen within a lifetime. (like the Romanian dictator and the Talibans who destroyed the huge Buddha statues in Afghanistan).

3. Some karmic actions happen in the next life. (like being reborn in the Four Lower Abodes or in the Heavenly deva planes.)

4. Some karmic action will bear fruit at any appropriate time till a person becomes an Arahat. (example: even some Arahats had to suffer the effects of their past bad karma just before attaining nibanna. The Suttas are full of these stories. There was one Arahat who was killed by robbers - beaten to death. In this case he was paying back what he did in his past life when he asked robbers to beat his parents to death. The parents did not see who did this cruel act as they were blind.

Very recently, I was listening to a very good CD - a sermon given by Ashin Zawana (Metta Shin). In his vipassana sermon he said that the real test to find out if a person had become a Sotapan or not is to see if this person will do the following things:

1. Kill a living being.
2. Steal

He explained that a person who has reached the stage of Sotapana (first level stream winner in the Magga path)will not commit the above acts. He or she would rather die. A Sotapana cannot be bribed by any amount of money or threatened by death.

One of the biggest virtues of the Omniscient Buddhas is that they will never commit an evil deed when they are by themselves or in public.

The Buddhas have the virtue of "Vija carana".

Vija = knowledge

Carana = practice

All other beings who are not on the list of Stream Winners of the Magga Path (Sotapana, Thadagana, Anagana and Arahata) will commit small acts of akusala or big acts of akusala.

This is because they do not yet have the vija pyinnya (Knowledge that leads to Magga).

An ordinary putuzana may not believe the laws of karma. He or she may not even believe in the next existence.

That is why some people may commit cruel crimes within society or even crimes against humanity like Hitler and Pol Pot.

I once had a friend who told me "why should I care what happens to me in my next life, if there is one, as I will probably not remember anything." Well, I told him "you will feel the pain in any case and it does not matter whether you remember why this misfortune is happening to you."

For persons who do not learn from history, history has a habit of repeating itself.

The real hero is not the person who does the right thing in front of the TV for publicity but the person who does the right thing even when he has the opportunity to commit crimes or become rich while he is alone and unknown by anyone.

Jesus once said: "Do not let the right hand know what the left hand is doing". In my interpretation, I think he was reminding us to be humble and good and not worry too much about publicity.


Buddha said in the Dhammapada: "He who by righteousness abandons the evil ways of life shines in this world like the moon escaped from clouds".

At the end of the day, we may be able to fool a few people or a lot of people or even the whole world, but we cannot fool ourselves.

All our thoughts and actions are recorded permanently on the "hard drive" of the karmic stream of consciousness. Good deeds or bad deeds will follow us like a shadow for many, many lifetimes.


With that let me rest for today.

KM