Less than two weeks after he was convicted on corruption charges and sentenced to life imprisonment, Gloria Arroyo is reported to be considering a pardon for Joseph Estrada.

Is it any wonder that the West treats Asian judicial and political systems with contempt and derision?

Estrada was tried in the country's legal system and found to be guilty. If pardoned it means either the judicial system is corrupt, or the political system is corrupt.

The offer from Arroyo comes before Estrada has even served a single day in jail.

It's almost as laughable as the recent decision in Jakarta against Time Magazine, wherein the judges described former president Soharto as a "respected military officer with a fine record."

By finding in favour of Soharto, the court found he and his family, had not milked millions from the country's economy.

It seems to me that many Asian countries simply hold trials such as these as a show.

While many in Asia call for corrupt elements to be treated harshly, they don't have the stomach to see it through. It's also apparent that those who move in the upper levels of some Asian countries are committed to looking after their fellows should they be caught up in a scandal.

I'm interested in what message other people here think actions and decisions such as these send to potential investors?

More importantly, why should the international community, as well as the World Bank, etc, provide large grants, loans and financial aid to countries that continue to allow corruption to occur and treat those found guilty so leniently?

Not only are some of the asians laughable

the palestinians are laughable
ahmadinejad is laughable

i think the world is laughable

and countries without oil are more laughable

and with that it can be seriously discussed
but tomorrow for i am a little bit
sleepy.



<br><br>Post edited by: linsi, at: 2007/09/26 19:20

Hi Photo_Journ

I am so glad to see you taking part in our forums and sharing articles

Lets keep this on-topic. We're not here to talk about the Middle East, or the rest of the world for that matter.

And as for oil, most Asian countries have it. Viet Nam, Indonesia, Timor Leste and Malaysia all have considerable oil reserves.

What we're talking about is the resolve to see those who steal are punished.

In the Philippines thousands of people take to the streets to support Estrada.

Is the message here that it's ok to be a thief if you are popular and entertain the masses?

Or are the people saying that the courts are corrupt and they have no faith in them?

Alternatively, because Arroyo wants to pardon Estrada, the message must be that the politicians are corrupt and that there is no difference between the different parties or leaders.

It has to be one of the three.

In Indonesia Soeharto is described in glowing terms by a Judge, who awards him massive damages for being defamed by Time magazine.

At the same time the UN Stolen Asset Recovery (STaR) scheme names him as the most corrupt leader in the world.

How can a judge even think to describe Soeharto in glowing terms and defend his character and still expect to be taken seriously and respected?

Why should the West have any respect for countries that routinely act in this manner?

Why should foreign investors in particular have any faith that they will receive even a modicum of a fair hearing if they end up in court?

The &quot;people power&quot; revolution in the Philippines achieved nothing.

The &quot;people power&quot; revolution that swept Megawati Soekarnoputri to power in Indonesia resulted in a period of inactivity and less foreign investment than at any other time in Indonesia's history.

We keep hearing about politicians who are going to clean up the corruption, but as soon as they are elected they act the same. Asian politicians continualy assure foreign investors that the judiciary is independent and impartial, but decisions such as these show otherwise.

Trials are nothing more than a pump and pony show.

When someone is convicted they receive a pardon.

Tommy Soeharto ordered the murder of a judge, amongst other things, and now struts the streets of Jakarta planning to sue the Indonesian Government for lost millions.

At the same time Asian leaders hold their hands out for cheap loans, grants and foreign aid from the World Bank, IMF and foreign donors.

Indonesia just spent US$1 billion in weapons from Russia. At the same time the Governor of Sumatra wants to build a US$10 billion, six-lane bridge linking Sumatra to Java.

The money could be better used to feed the poor in these countries, I think.<br><br>Post edited by: photo_journ, at: 2007/09/27 04:49

photo_journ wrote:

QUOTE:
Lets keep this on-topic. We're not here to talk about the Middle East, or the rest of the world for that matter.

And as for oil, most Asian countries have it. Viet Nam, Indonesia, Timor Leste and Malaysia all have considerable oil reserves.

What we're talking about is the resolve to see those who steal are punished.

You raised the argument of some asian countries being laughed off by the West-

my attention was caught by the laughs of the west-

about some asian countries. you stated about particular politicians, due process, but these things also exist
all over th world-

if you would consentrate the discussions about some asian countries particularly the philippines and indonesia-
and if we clamour fairness in this issue then it is justifiable to look around the globe and see that the situations mentioned are just cyclic .


about oil?
the countries you mentioned, vietnam, timor leste, indonesia and malaysia, have been mentioned and you stated that they have considerable oil reserves, that does not fair well with oil-powered nations in the gulf region so much so that even the most awkward shows these countries play coud not elisit laughs from the west?


will continue then---

photo_journ wrote:

QUOTE:


What we're talking about is the resolve to see those who steal are punished.

In the Philippines thousands of people take to the streets to support Estrada.

Is the message here that it's ok to be a thief if you are popular and entertain the masses?

Or are the people saying that the courts are corrupt and they have no faith in them?

Alternatively, because Arroyo wants to pardon Estrada, the message must be that the politicians are corrupt and that there is no difference between the different parties or leaders.

It has to be one of the three.

In Indonesia Soeharto is described in glowing terms by a Judge, who awards him massive damages for being defamed by Time magazine.

At the same time the UN Stolen Asset Recovery (STaR) scheme names him as the most corrupt leader in the world.

i donot deny that the philippines and most of asia have weak governments, and these governments control the reigns- i just hope that what i said made the picture clear-

but when one sees only one part of the whole then the other parts could not speak to give the full definition of who is more laughable- the weak ones being laughed at or the strong mighty ones who are laughing...

photo_journ wrote:

QUOTE:




Why should foreign investors in particular have any faith that they will receive even a modicum of a fair hearing if they end up in court?

The &quot;people power&quot; revolution in the Philippines achieved nothing.

The &quot;people power&quot; revolution that swept Megawati Soekarnoputri to power in Indonesia resulted in a period of inactivity and less foreign investment than at any other time in Indonesia's history.

the majority of the citizenry are dismal,i earlier stated that few elites and weak governments benefit from these situations, i together with millions of private citizens share a common sentiment of discouragements specially about people power to end up being swirled upon an spurned by these ugly politicians-- but those who
are in power have the money and more power-

why should foreign investors in particular have any faith that they will receive even a modicum of a fair hearing if they end up in court?

we have similar question-- but then

Bill Gates chooses Clark firm in the philippines to produce microsoft- japan is also investing some of theirs to these laughable countries- this is the reason i was asking about the ones being laughed at and the ones laughing-

photo_journ wrote:

QUOTE:
Lets keep this on-topic.


Why should the West have any respect for countries that routinely act in this manner?

the west just belong to the circle of life-
they were pioneers in terms of everything
i acknowledge their achievements

but
there is one thing that remains-
not foes not friends but only the common
self interests of nations.and respect
is earned not through virtues when we talk
of politics but through wealth and power.

photo_journ wrote:

QUOTE:

The money could be better used to feed the poor in these countries, I think.

bottomline:

i agree with you-

maybe some other forumers who are more politically oriented and inclined can contribute to this thread because the truth is
the arguments here are timely and relevant

I don't undestand in what the situation of the Palestinians is laughable