Jacques wrote:

QUOTE:
Jacques wrote:
I opened the discussion by this :


So, today we open the second point

[size=4]Do you think that there is A large aspiration in China for a more democratic system ?

[/size]

I maybe wrong but for my opinion as of now to date?

NO-

People are more interested about their freedom to express their human rights in many areas, example:

consultations and proper treatments when their houses are demolished-

better medical programs for the poor in rural areas-

addresssing the problems of widening gap between the rich and the poor etc--

raising livelihood for the farms through out China

Only a few elites wanted a democracy style as shown in the tiananmen square-

IS THIS DEMOCRACY? NOT NECESSARILY because in China's political set-up they also have programs for a better life
in their country such as clamours which i mentioned above.

i maybe wrong but that's the way i see it- i welcome rebuttals and disagreements.

linsi

Yes, there are more and more demonstrations in China, but for life condition problems. We will discuss of that latter, but not for more political freedom or multiparty system

Dear Linsi,

I don't think that it will be right to say that the people in China do not aspire for 'democratic rights'. Particularly when they find that they have no adequate redress for 'injustice'.

While people living with the system of democratic government may sometimes take it for granted what they have people living under totalitarian regime, whether they be in China, Burma or Zinbabwe, they will definitely aspire to have those same rights.

Let's take a person who have faith and practice Falagon as his or her belief. By not being able to have such a right wouldn't that person be yearning for what people in democratic countries enjoyed without too much fuss?

If people have been put under the conditions where their daily chores was to stuggle for 'survival' then it's natural for them to be happy that they can make some money under the curent system but what about their property rights? Will they be guranteed that they won't be taken away if the government wanted to do so.

In my opinion if someone says that he or she is just happy or content to be alive and making money then that person is none better than the pig or cattle stuffing themselves while waiting for their day to be slaughtered.

warazein wrote:

QUOTE:
Dear Linsi,

I don't think that it will be right to say that the people in China do not aspire for 'democratic rights'. Particularly when they find that they have no adequate redress for 'injustice'.

While people living with the system of democratic government may sometimes take it for granted what they have people living under totalitarian regime, whether they be in China, Burma or Zinbabwe, they will definitely aspire to have those same rights.

Let's take a person who have faith and practice Falagon as his or her belief. By not being able to have such a right wouldn't that person be yearning for what people in democratic countries enjoyed without too much fuss?

If people have been put under the conditions where their daily chores was to stuggle for 'survival' then it's natural for them to be happy that they can make some money under the curent system but what about their property rights? Will they be guranteed that they won't be taken away if the government wanted to do so.

In my opinion if someone says that he or she is just happy or content to be alive and making money then that person is none better than the pig or cattle stuffing themselves while waiting for their day to be slaughtered.

Agree warazein,

What i was telling was the political system of China.

China upholds justice, look at what they've done to corrupt
officials and even high officials in the communist party
as what happened lately stating:

DEATH FOR CORRUPTION: Shaoyu, the head of China's Food and Drugs Administration was found guilty of taking $800,000 in bribe.

China's justice system is sufficient for them. Are they in democratic form? I think not.

They also now are having programs for livelihood, health, education, infrastructures and many more-
therefore, China is on the process of answering human needs
about rights and injustice.

Are they in democratic form? I think not.
I earlier mentioned, do the clamours mean DEMOCRACY?
I said not necessarily-

as a matter of fact in the free world
many people are oppressed, suppresed and repressed.Ok that is another topic

Tiananmen Square reminds the world of Democratic Freedom the few elites wanted, but as a whole China is strong in its communist rule, addressing problems in their own way and
majority of the people see it as a change to hail China's rule from the very beginning.

I think "happiness" is relative, i never said that the chinese people would be happy just being alive- they are now given the right to express and they are addressed progressively, "making money" for China gave China wealth and power as seen in their achievements, with their relations to other countries, their economy, and many more.

What capitalism does to the west, it applies to China now.

So the question is:
Do you think that there is A large aspiration in China for a more democratic system ?

My answer is still the same as of now as to date

NO-
their aspirations are better life, not a change of goverment and political system.


Read about Falun Gong on further studies and why
China's Government took an act against them.I think
there are many issues to be learned and all must
benefit from it.





<br><br>Post edited by: linsi, at: 2007/06/18 06:09

warazein wrote:

QUOTE:
Comparing Singapore with People's Republic of China can be like talking about two different things. Singapore is just a 'Nanny Sate' with the size of not even one province of China. Authoritarian style democracy is possible in Singapore but in this twenty-first century, the information age and globalisation it will be hard for the leaders in China not to open up.
.

Agree
but i was not talking about the size or about a &quot;nanny state&quot; warazein, i am more into the abuse of freedom the western democracy citizens are making to hurt themselves
and the government to where they belong thus influencing
other nations which makes it a global social crisis.

i was more into drugs,crimes of large magnitudes,
iresponsible informations and journalism,
uprisings etc..hurting societies and governments
by abusing the freedom they have..

that was only some aspects of the many problems
of the abuse of democracy.

i hope this could also be discussed
in another topic because Chinas's rule and
the rule of the Free World are beset with
the same hardships of answering social problems
as a result of abusing Freedom.

I have propose to open a new forum on that very large and important subject.

For a change in China, we have to discuss on several topics about what can be the conditions that could provoque the fall of the Communist party.

For me the CCP could loose his power under several conditions.

1) Divisions inside the CCP

2) A large aspiration in the country for a more democratic system

3)His power challenged by some forces :

31) The rise of a bourgeoisie wanting to have a place in the decision making on economy throught polical ways.
32) Everywhere in the world, the young are the sprout of the Revolution. Is it the case in China today ?
33) In China there are a lot of demonstrations. Can they provoque an organized uprising ?
34) Could the rising difference between income has as a result a fight against the CCP¨?
35) Are there others big problems challenging the CCP power, such as ecology ?

Today I rise the 31) point
Do you think that the rise of a bourgeoisie wanting to have a place in the decision making on economy throught polical ways endanger the power of the Chinese Communist Party ?

Dear Linsi,

I don't think it's right or just to execute for 'corruption'. There's no fool proof system for 'state sanctioned killing' suck as 'death penalty'. Even with death penality does it deterred people not to abuse their trust, no!

One cannot say that for the betterment of one's livelihood in whatever means. The leaders in China may call it 'Communism with Chinese Characteristics'. It's fortunate they didn't call it 'Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics'.

The mindset of the people has to change. If one belives in this life only there will be no accountability as to how one earns his or her livelihood. As long as one can make as much money as one can that will be OK, isn't it? However, if one has a belief that one has to account for one's action in this life ethier to God or in accordance with the law of Karma then one would have some restraint or at least second thought for one actions.

In a democratic system there is always a call for accountability. As in other parts of the world you will find that such a system is not without fault but the effort is there. In China that is hardly the case. As always it is always the people at the bottom that have to suffer.

I don't know about you Linsi, I rather be like the fox that is free and hungry than a dog who is fed but chained.

I have opened this forum to discuss the future of the Chinese communist party.

For a change in China, we have already talk the two first topics about what can be the conditions that could provoque the fall of the Communist party.

1) Divisions inside the CCP

2) A large aspiration in the country for a more democratic system

Today I rise the 31) point

Do you think that the rise of a bourgeoisie wanting to have a saying in the decision making on economy throught polical ways may endanger the power of the Chinese Communist Party ?

warazein wrote:

QUOTE:
Dear Linsi,

I don't think it's right or just to execute for 'corruption'. There's no fool proof system for 'state sanctioned killing' suck as 'death penalty'. Even with death penality does it deterred people not to abuse their trust, no!

One cannot say that for the betterment of one's livelihood in whatever means. The leaders in China may call it 'Communism with Chinese Characteristics'. It's fortunate they didn't call it 'Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics'.

The mindset of the people has to change. If one belives in this life only there will be no accountability as to how one earns his or her livelihood. As long as one can make as much money as one can that will be OK, isn't it? However, if one has a belief that one has to account for one's action in this life ethier to God or in accordance with the law of Karma then one would have some restraint or at least second thought for one actions.

In a democratic system there is always a call for accountability. As in other parts of the world you will find that such a system is not without fault but the effort is there. In China that is hardly the case. As always it is always the people at the bottom that have to suffer.

I don't know about you Linsi, I rather be like the fox that is free and hungry than a dog who is fed but chained.

dear warazein,

i totally agree with you, what i was trying to say is this:
it is the time for the majority of the citizens in china to
demand for a better life- that is their priority.

when we go back to maslow's hierarcy of needs, before man could reach fulfillment, his BASIC NEEDS must be met first-
the basic needs are: shelter, food, clothing, medicine as shown at the bottom image of my reply.

when the basic needs are met then it is the time for an upper forward movement to self actualization which includes ideology such as freedom and democracy-as shown about self respect, achievements-etc..

When communism took China it has the charismatic message of
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members--


A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people

For decades, china has been under communist rule and most of the villagers (except for the few elites) never had a taste of what western democracy could bring and how democratic form of governments in the west is brought to people. These villagers could never miss what they donot know but for sure since birth they have the want and desire to fill their BASIC HUMAN NEEDS which are:

inherent to all human beings wether we live in the modern times or pre-historic age, communist or free- the need for food, shelter etc as our basics are calls of our very nature.

I think when these needs are met then the upward, forward movement will rise and that is the time most of China will
be aware of what democracy is, and how democracy of the west really works.

let me know your thoughts about this warazein

I have to said it again

QUOTE:
I have opened this forum to discuss the future of the Chinese communist party.

For a change in China, we have already talk the two first topics about what can be the conditions that could provoque the fall of the Communist party.

1) Divisions inside the CCP

2) A large aspiration in the country for a more democratic system

Today I rise the 31) point

Do you think that the rise of a bourgeoisie wanting to have a saying in the decision making on economy throught polical ways may endanger the power of the Chinese Communist Party ?

Please, for the clearness of the debate, just answet to this question