Dear MokeHimKha,

Of course it is serious. Everyone wants to see Myanmar change for better. Not for worse. Your question was how to change peacefully.

Another simple way to do it simple. We can start from zero. Because it‘s been 60 years. We all have been through these horrible and terrible 60 years. We know nothing was working, because everyone was sticking to their own points and did not moved from their position. We cannot compromise we cannot give away, we want to take only.

We have to empty our heads to make place for new thinking to adopt new ideas,

Ko Kyaw Myaing, please don‘t let me believe what ever is happening in the world today is the will of GOD. Then we better take it as it comes. We can do nothing to compete with GOD to over rule God ., let alone we are rivals to GOD. Who is GOD anyway, Buddha , Christ, Mohamed?

Please don’t talk about Tipitaka or Abidamar.or ThokeTan Kyun to me. I am not a monk nor an expert on it.. Let it be whatever will be will be.

They are reluctant to do what they have not done it before.

Lets forget about the last 60 years,

Because when Panglong Agreement was signed KNU was only observer status, KNU had other idea.

Now since National Convention was held, NLD withdrew from it.

1947 Constitution did not serve the nation, 1974 Constitution did not serve it either. We need a new constitution that is the truth Another truth is we don’t trust each other.
If only we can trust each other, if we can start again believing we are all Myanmars and say we can do it. Then it will be done.

I sense that MHK or U Kmyaing or some other can not agree to what I said. About all armed gangs must disband and there must be only one Tatmadaw, There must be only one people in one country.

If that is what they cannot agree, how many Tatmadaws they want in Myanmar? Kayin Tatmdaw, Kachin Tatmadaw, Shan Tatmadaw etc., etc, of their own? Then what is the difference?

Union of Myanmar or Federal Republic of Myanmar or United States of Myanmar whatever its going to be will have no meaning at all.

What is the peaceful change means?

SPDC to hand over power to NLD? Is that a peaceful way? Not a chance..
New constitution is in process, the same problem is NLD did not take part the same as KNU and some others did in 1947.

The same old ways they are using , bringing the people out, none co operation with the government. Whatever SPDC does they have to oppose it simply because they are opposition.

KHK do you sincerely and honestly foreigners has nothing to do with what is happening in Myanmar?

You are right that is why in many of my messages I said foreigners should leave Myanmars alone to solve their problems. Though we don’t want to be in a nostalgia of colonial period for bad or good things , they don’t leave us alone, do they? One way or the other they try to get involve , they are involve trying to under mine us. Belittle our leaders. They never stop. Do they?

We are paying the price, high prices higher and higher, while other are enjoying on our expanses.

The only this annoying me is that, people never try to understand What SPDC is doing. If only they open their eyes a little bit they will see , because they are not that blind.

Today generation is lucky, very lucky, they see English Imperialists and Japanese fascists only on the drawing board. Their pictures hanging. They never experience having lived under them. They have never been treated different in their own country.
So for them to know what it was like, at least for their general knowledge just to let them know what it was like. If it was not about the colonialist or the fascists, at least it is about the hypocrites

Nobody helps nobody for nothing. If we believe that we are weak. we are ignorant. Nothing is free in the world there is always a price to pay now or later.

I thought you ‘ll never say that when you said “ we are caught up between world’s most powerful US and giant China”. You know that, I know that , how many Myanmars know that?

I have nothing to add or subtract from your analysis on US and China. We Myanmars have to do our best to keep Myanmar to become Myay Zar Bin between two buffalos. We have been through from 1942 to 1945 How many of today generation know that?

I am talking about today generation, because the future Myanmar is in their hands.
Myamars leaders starting from U Nu and his friends knew, the best way for Myanmar is to be none aligned , neutral . If we are allowed to pursue that line without any disturbance from anybody, big or small, Myanmars will be laughing. But that will be not possible we are see that. Because we want to be none aligned, independence, free sovereign nation. Some body is not allowing that to Myanmar. And also I am afraid that will be to the disappointment of our eastern neighbour, namely Thailand.

Even though I don’t want to go back to the history of Myanmar and Siam later to be called Thailand If you study its history, how Siam employed Portuguese and Japanese mercenaries against Myanmar. The world knows only Myanmar ‘s Aloung Min Taya’s Tatmadaw attacked Chaing Mai and destroyed Ayuddaya. Nobody took trouble to find out why. And at present days how Thailand give sanctuaries to the insurgents and terrorist against Myanmar.

Myanmar is being pushed away. China is a great nation as well as a good neighbour.

To accept US troops in Myanmar and missiles site aiming at China from Myanmar’s soil is unthinkable. Myanmar and China came along way since Anawrahta time around 1044 I believe . There were many treaties an agreements between the two nations including demarcation during U Nu of Myanmar And Chao En Lai of China.

All Myanmar leaders tried to be make Myanmar friend to all nations. The problem was nobody wanted Myanmar especially nobody from the west w anted Myanmar if it is not their puppet. .

As a matter of fact as I have mentioned in my previous messages sometimes ago, if the British were not there in Myanmar , if the British did respect human rights in Myanmar in those days. Ko Aung San did not have to bring Japanese to Myanmar. During three short years Myanmar was bombed twice, nobody not even Adipadi Dr Ba Maw could ask Japanese to withdraw from Myanmar to spare Myanmar from British and allied bombings That was the time the saying “ Mi Aye Nha Khar Nar “ came out.

Frankly Myanmar can not afford to have US military presence or Chinese military presence in Myanmar, as simple as that.. Myanmar had bitter experiences having foreign power on its soil, not to forget White Chinese backed by US.

Reminds me of U Aung Zeya Aloubng Min Taya. He had said in his time if Kwe Gonna Ain and Hantharwaddy Talaing Min beat each other hew will swear the allegiance to the winner. Either the US beat China or China beat US. Myanmar will know what to do. Myanmar cannot afford to be another battle ground for any warmongers. They don’t need Myanmar or any other country. They have more then enough missiles ICBMs with nuclear war heads to wipe each other out. Why do they want Myanmar.

If they want to pay for Myanmar’s natural recourses , they pay a fair price. They never say how much they to Saudi Arabia for a barrel of oil. But they are selling $95 for British Brent Oil or $95 for American per berrel.. There must be a trade secret. That we don’t know.

Another thing is, “ Yong Zone Thoung Jun “ or multi coloured insurgents are still surviving. They are still kicking, alive and well. Who do you think are behind them ? You work it out yourself Okey?

By your own admission Myanmar ‘s position is “ Kyar Thanar Mha Nwar Chan Thar .
If you are not my friend , you are my enemy. The friend of my enemy is my enemy.
Myanmar is a small nation. A very small one It threatens no neighbour, let alone the region.

The most powerful nation uses too big the words to justify their actions on anybody e specially small tiny helpless nation like Myanmar. They are threatening the Myanmar they are the threat to the region, they are the threat to the world.

If Russia couldn’t deter it , China should . Alternatively Russia and China should join hands together to deter that. China and Russia are socialist countries. As Confucious had said war is undesirable that is what China is observing. But the warmongers will only understand the language of war. Iron can only be cut by the iron.

If somebody say Myamar does not want peace, that is a lie, a big lie. There is nobody then Myanmars who wants peace. The question is who want to see Myanmar in peace. Because the more Myanmar is in trouble the more its neighbours exploit Myanmar, the more they progress and the more they developed with the expense of Myanmar. As for Myanmar like Bogyoke had said, Myanmar is becoming a whore house. Myanmars are becoming whores.

Who is making Myanmar a whore house? That is everybody’s guess. Because everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

If there is an entry, there is always a exit. Of course there is a way or ways. We have to believe it. The coming elections under the new constitution which is in process will give us some more ideas.

Do we know any other leader in Myanmar? Or a leader both side can trust? If Than Shwe is out of the question, if Maung Aye is out of question, so is Ma Su Kyi and U Tin Oo.

Can the rest of NLD leaders in Myanmar work hands in hands with the rest of SPDC leaders. That is we have to wait and see. The new constitution will take them to that direction. Tatmadaw men and political parties working together. While building confidence or while building trust. Will the people pro and con give them a chance to work together? That may be the peaceful way the one and only way..

If we go back to 1988 and slowly come back to this day. Some people , in Myanmar, “ Pazutt Shi Daing Shaut Pyaw “ they had big mouth which they used words which they cannot swallow or spit.

If we are serious, we can be serious. Nice talking to you.

Thunderbolts.

Dear Thunderbolts,

Thanks again for your message. I think I understand which message do you want to convey us not only me but also all Myanmars.
However am afraid that you message will not pass to all myamars because we all had bitter experiences in your words we do not trust each other.

I really want a change come to our country in peaceful way. The almost only and simple way is to accept the constitution I know that. But I am afraid that people will reject it. That's why I am looking for a solution both sides can accept.

I really studied much about this constitution, all chapters, it is not democratic sure and even many hidden points that can be dangerous in future, sure. But i think that we need a basic frame within it we can start to work for the nation building. I see this constitution as a basic for start working or an environment for creating the new generation.

The opposition has many weak points but i think we burmese are too simple to believe and sollow everything we heard and see.

You talk about ethnic, others, yes when i say the foreigners have nothing to do with our country is because i believe that way. And also i don't think spdc are too dump and blind either. But we should accept the fact that they destroyed our country's economy.

The US is belittle-ing our leaders from both sides. They are transforming our opposition as their puppets and spdc leaders into vilains.

I just want to create a new kind of generation or elites who will not think of doing politics should be based on truth and false.
And truth also changes with time and situation. And who will know how to defend our country's interests. Who accept people in Myanmar are equal regardless of it's ethnicity. I want Karen, Kachin all people see Myanmar as their beloved home. And they will be protected in their home. And I want to let people firstly improve tehir daily lives and develope our country then see that if federal state is still necessary for them. Time will tell them.

I want to create an environment where all people can start working.

That's all I want. But it seems too difficult now.

As Russia's Putin said in his inteview witn Time what happen happen, but it would be difficult for myanmar people to forget the things from september demo.


BR<br><br>Post edited by: MokeHimKha, at: 2008/01/11 01:12

Dear MokeHimKha,

With due respect, I don't want to misunderstand you. so I will not say that I know what you are driving at.

The problem is whatever in Myanmar, whoever the leader is in Myanmar are no good for Myanmars. Is that how I must understand? Or whatever SPDC is doing is no good for any one in Myanmar, is that it?

Sometimes something is better than nothing. Myanmar saying is &quot; Thit Ma Ya Gin - Wah Poung Kut &quot;. That carries a lot of meaning I think.

The new constiution for future Myanmar which is in process, according to you may be rejected. It is not democratic enough it is good enough, is that it?

I think I know why, because of participation of unelected Tatmadaw representatives.

Would you like to say 1947 constitution is the best or it was better than 1974?

I have said many times under present situations and circumstances, this constitution is the best we can have. We have to try and work. When circumstances and situations changed, this constitution must be amended according to the need of the time.

There is no constitution in the world which has no amendments since it was first drafted or approved.

The problem of the 1947 constitution does not guarantee the integrity of Union of Myanmaror the Unity of the people of Myanmars. U Nu tried time and time again in his own ways. As a last resort U Ne Win had to do it in his way. because of their common sense or because of pressures on them Shan Sawbwas surrendered their powers in the interest of the nation. According to some Shams who are living in Canada, Sawbwas were foreced to.

Until 1885 and there after Thibaw, Shans and Bamars were very close to each other. Nyaung Shwe Sawbwas was very popular among Bamars, he was regarded as one of the Royals. As a matter of fact Bamars and Shans , Shans and Bamar were no difference. Shan blood in our Royals our Royal blue blood in the Shans.

The first President of Union of Burma (Myanmar) was Sai Shwe Theik the Nyaung Shwe Sawbwa. In the old language he was the first Monarch or the King of Burma,
(Myanmar)in 1948 when Myanmar gained independence from the British. Thibaws family were well looked after by the Nyaung Shwe Sawbwas. We loved him as our own. No questions were asked.

And U Saw Maung or U Than Shwe has to carry on to keep Myanmat intact.

Anyway, as our elders had said that we Myanmars are making simple things difficult and difficult things impossible.
If the Myanmars rejected the new constitution. of course we have to restart again.. What will be the consequences? Myanmar use to say say not to take as &quot;Hlay Nan Dah Htit &quot;. What do you think that means MHK?

MHK, for example you and I have seen with our very own eyes or on the TV, in our own country Myanmar and about some other countries, children and adult alike risking their health picking what may be the good one and the better one from the rubbish bins s or from rubbish dumps. Because they are so poor, they have not many choice.

Why cant we accept this new constitution which is in process as the better one for the moment before we can have the best one.

Lastly, what I want to tell you is I am living outside Myanmar for so long, but I still look at Myanmar as it is and Myamars as they are. Because Myanmar is my country, Myanmars are my people.

I want to tell them, &quot;Wa Ma Shi Be Wi Ma Lote Ne&quot;, if they do they will be asking for more troubles. Don't take it as a threat from SPDC, this has nothing to do with SPDC, I'll tell you that.

Have pity on them MHK, don't ask them to do what they cannot do or can not afford. Have mercy on them.

Rome was not build in a day is too old a saying, doesn't it?

Please don’t forget if you want to create a new environment, Like I said above, old people with old idea have to be dump. That may even be against human right, against democracy.

Nice talking to you,

Thunderbolts

thunderbolts,

I read in one of your other posts you said this:

QUOTE:
The malicious attacks on SPDC (Tatmadaw ) are out of proportion.

I have noticed this opinion is rather controversial on this board and elsewhere. I do not understand how your opinion supports a future peaceful vision for burma-myanmar or Myanmar as you say. My understanding is SPDC control burma-myanmar with brutal force and many SPDC members are uncomfortable with their situation. I prefer leaders that lead with a sound set of principals and are willing and able to discuss opinions and options.

Would you be willing to support your opinion with real examples? Can SPDC play a role in a future vision?

nayting

thunderbolts,

I read in one of your other posts you said this:

QUOTE:
The malicious attacks on SPDC (Tatmadaw ) are out of proportion.

I have noticed this opinion is rather controversial on this board and elsewhere. I do not understand how your opinion supports a future peaceful vision for burma-myanmar or Myanmar as you say. My understanding is SPDC control burma-myanmar with brutal force and many SPDC members are uncomfortable with their situation. I prefer leaders that lead with a sound set of principals and are willing and able to discuss opinions and options.

Would you be willing to support your opinion with real examples? Can SPDC play a role in a future vision?

nayting

Dear Thunderboults,

The situation in Myanmar is too complicated that the ordinary people can not see the things like you and me see. We are still very primitive in all we do. The education system corrupted, the economy is destroyed. The children are on the streets demanding money – we can not feed our children 2 times a day not to mention the parents can no longer afford to send their children to schools.

What they understand is all these things happened because one group of military men are governing our country and they are so bad, they kill innocent people, they imprison innocent people, therefore all they do is bad, should not be accepted and we must do all we can to remove them from power, for this happens, The US is helping us, the west is helping us and especially the all opposition are working hard by scarifying their lives and even some times their whole families to help us pull out of from this hell. This is the way the general public think, believe and feel. Sometimes (I don’t now it is on purpose or not) The foreign local and international media are also manipulating us, people are so much relying on these foreign media because they are hunger of information. That’s why I say there is much chance that the constitution can be rejected. Because we hate too much our government. As you said we believe or we are taught to believe all the government does is bad and must be rejected by all means even by scarifying our lives if necessary (i.e: example of September demo) .

And when the opposition leaders talk about democracy, they talk about only “rights” not teach our people we need to build appropriate laws and economy built before “right”.

Had the military governance made good things to our country?, you can not “yes” because there are real facts – they made suffer our people – poverty, lost confidence in our own faith, self-inferiority face to other people – all these things have been built in our minds. We grown up with “no hope for future”.
All these things if I have to mention all – impossible, because they are countless.

Had Myamar’s leaders from old politics or democracy period (after independence) done good things to our country – NO.
There were conflicts between various parties, groups, not to mention ethnic conflicts: The politicians of Maynmar had not got their time to build the country at all – now they are blaming at each other - civil governance and military governance. During the U Nu ‘time there was no political stability when regard to economy , U Nu’s government did not have time to improve, prepare for country’s economy emerge into international economy plan. They were so busy with communist rebels, ethnic conflicts.

Under the military governance, I would say there was political stability even though some might claim that it was just a superficial – but at least big civil disappeared form urban area., but economy declined gradually. I do not want to go inside details of reason for filed state before and after military periods.
Fact are facts, what happened what happened.

In fact I personally do not trust in any kind of politics regardless of military or civil. When we look at the veterans politicians group, they say they are teaching the activists frequenting them the real history which the military removed from the school books – I do not profess all what they say are wrong and I do not profess they are bad or good - but most of their saying are for justifying their political errors they had made to our country – to become a failed state. But surprisingly they are not shameful of it even at the age of over-80s instead they even are very happy that now they are experiencing a period where they can justify their errors from old time by blaming all at Nay Win . The same like General Than Shwe is not shameful of killing its own people. What I observe from them they talk and talk of old time, blame and blame at military for not willing to talk to the opposition. Therefore I conclude that they are useless for our country.

For me military and civil politics are equally responsible for the failed state.

I am not interested in any kind of political group – NLD, veterans, military or exiles. I do not believe that they will be able to lead our country to the good direction either. When I listen to all of them- I sense that they are not for our country. How can they govern a country while they pass all their times hoping “uprisings” for change. NLD is really dump. They made lost all of the opportunities for negotiating possible share-power. Because they have learned that “talk” is equal to 2 persons talking on a table and refused all other forms of talk. But they want “too much” and they lost “all”. You say the current constitution is the best under the present situation – I reply you not at all, it could be much better if NLD was intelligent and tactic. NLD’s priority was honouring the 90 results at the expense of all.
They had chosen 90 results to be honoured and to lose opportunities to improve the proposed constitution.

However from the people side we can not remove the military as equally as we can not remove the opposition. All two exist in our country for good and bad. People want to work for the country. We want to improve our lives. We want to enjoy a bit of development our neighbours get such as China, Vietnam and others. And we see that we can not rely for this neither on the opposition nor on the military. Therefore it is time for us to choose. But we still need military make a small compromise in order to consolidate the events of September. The only and unique compromise the military can male is in their proposed constitution. The opposition seems want more, so if the military can make this they can even downgrade the opposition in future.

The current constitution at least allows multi-party system – in future we will have more choices for parties.

I will discuss in more details about the constitution in another post.

This message is now too long.

BR